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आज लेखक मनोहर श्याम जोशी की पुण्यतिथि है. देखते ही देखते उनकी मृत्यु के पांच बरस बीत गए. विश्व कप का सेमीफ़ाइनल शुरु होने से पहले पढ़ लेते हैं उनका अंतिम साक्षात्कार जो प्रसिद्ध पत्रकार अजित राय ने किया था. १९-३-२००६ को यानी उनकी मृत्यु से केवल ११ दिनों पहले. बहुत साफ़गोई के साथ उन्होंने इस बातचीत में अनेक बातें पहली बार ही कही थीं. इसी बहाने उनको थोड़ा याद भी कर लेते हैं. हिंदी के उस बहुआयामी लेखक को- जानकी पुल.
प्रश्न- आपको साहित्य अकादेमी पुरस्कार की फिर से बधाई. बात यहीं से शुरु करें. साहित्य के लिए आपको बहुत कम पुरस्कार मिले हैं. इतने दिनों बाद इस महत्वपूर्ण पुरस्कार को पाकर कैसा लगा?
जोशीजी- जो मैं कहने जा रहा हूँ उस पर तुम हंसोगे. लेकिन इससे पहले दो बातें. एक, जैसा कि उस दिन साहित्य अकादेमी में अपने लेखकीय वक्तव्य में कहा भी- कि मेरे मित्र सर्वेश्वर दयाल सक्सेना कहा करते थे, जो लाख समझाने के बावजूद लिखता ही चला जाए उसे कभी-कभी इस ढिठाई के लिए भी पुरस्कृत कर दिया जाता है. तुम ठीक कहते हो, साहित्य का एक यही बड़ा पुरस्कार मुझे मिला है. मुझे खुशी भी हुई. अंततः बात यहाँ टूटती है कि निर्णायक कौन-कौन थे. आम सहमति से फैसला हुआ या नहीं. बहुधा होता यह है कि निर्णायक मंडल में कुछ लोग पहले से तय करके आते हैं कि ‘इस जनम में फलां को पुरस्कार नहीं देंगे.’ मैं यह इसलिए जानता हूँ कि साहित्य अकादेमी पुरस्कार के निर्णायक मंडल में मैं भी कई बार रहा हूँ. इस चक्कर में कोई तीसरा पुरस्कार पा जाता है. यह अजीब है कि वहां निर्णायक मंडल को अकादेमी एक सूची थमाकर कहती है कि किसी को चुन लो. इस बार हालांकि जिन लोगों ने मेरे नाम का फैसला किया वे तीनों तटस्थ थे, विवादस्पद नहीं थे, उनका कोई पक्ष या नामवर सिंह या अशोक वाजपेयी की तरह कोई गुट नहीं था- नन्दकिशोर आचार्य, गोविंद मिश्र और विश्वनाथ प्रसाद तिवारी.
अब एक किस्सा सुनो. पुरानी दिल्ली के चांदनी चौक में एक बैंड मास्टर ने कोई अनाम सा पुरस्कार साहित्य, कला, संस्कृति के लिए शुरु किया. बाद में मध्यप्रदेश के एक ट्रांसपोर्टर ने उस पुरस्कार का अधिग्रहण कर लिया. वे कांग्रेस को काफी चंदा देते थे. उन्होंने केंद्र सरकार के दो-दो कैबिनेट मंत्रियों को बुला रखा था पुरस्कार वितरण समारोह के लिए. चूँकि उनमें से एक सूचना एवं प्रसारण मंत्री थे तो दूरदर्शन, रेडियो और अखबारों के पत्रकारों की भीड़ थी. पुरस्कार में पैसा तो था नहीं, कोई ढंग का प्रतीक चिह्न भी नहीं था. थोक के भाव पुरस्कार बनते. दूरदर्शन समाचारों में मुझे भी दिखाया गया. मित्रों के बड़े फोन आये कि चेक कितने का मिला. पुरस्कार पाने वालों में आस्क उत्तर-छायावादी कवि सम्मेलनी मशहूर कवयित्री भी थी जिनका महत्व सिर्फ इसलिए था कि उनकी दो सुन्दर बेटियां थीं. एक अंग्रेजी अखबार के रिपोर्टर ने मुझसे पूछा कि इस महिला का साहित्य में क्या योगदान है? मैंने जवाब दिया- ‘ये अभी तक जीवित चली आ रही हैं, यह योगदान क्या कम है?’ तो पुरस्कारों की यही हालत है.
प्रश्न- आपने साहित्य अकादेमी पुरस्कार पाने के बाद अपने वक्तव्य में कहा था- ‘साहित्यकार बन बैठने के बाद मुझे अपना साहित्य और अपनी क्रांतिकारी भूमिका दोनों ही व्यंग्य के पात्र प्रतीत होने लगे.’ इसका क्या मतलब है? क्या आपका इशारा मार्क्सवादी विचारधारा के असफल या विघटन की ओर है?
जोशीजी- देखो, विचारधारा तो अब भी ठीक है. हमारा खुद को क्रांतिकारी होने का दावा करना पाखंड है. आप अपने रोज़मर्रा के जीवन में सामंती मानसिकता छोड़ नहीं पा रहे हैं और वामपंथी बनते हैं. यह कैसे संभव है? अधिकतर लेखक गांव से दौडकर दिल्ली आ गए, उन्हें भोग की सारी सुविधाएँ- कार, बंगला, पैसा चाहिए था- तो क्रांतिकारिता कैसी? न केवल आचरण क्रांतिकारी नहीं है, बल्कि उनके साहित्य से भी क्रांति नहीं हो रही है. मैं तुम्हें बताऊँ, जैसे हमारे ज़माने में मलयालम में एक नाटक लिखा गया था जिसका शीर्षक था- ‘तुमने मुझे कम्युनिस्ट बना दिया.’ उस नाटक को देख केरल में हज़ारों लोग कम्युनिस्ट बन गए थे. तुम बताओ, हिंदी में कौन सी ऐसी कृति है जिससे आप हिल जाएँ.
प्रश्न- आपने यह भी कहा है कि मेरी और मेरे मित्रों की प्रयोगधर्मिता पश्चिम से आयात की हुई है और क्रांति कल्पना बुर्जुआ आत्मदया से उपजी भावुकता पर है.’
जोशीजी- हिंदी लेखक आम मध्यवर्गीय हिन्दुस्तानी है जिसके पास अपनी दुखद स्मृतियों- माँ गुज़र गई, पिता भले आदमी थे. रघुवीर सहाय ने लिख दिया था न, ‘यही मैं हूँ.’ तो आप भावुक बुर्जुआ हैं और फ़ालतू का महान होने का दावा कर रहे हैं. आप सीधे-सादे दुनियादारी के धंधे में हैं, आपको फेलोशिप, पुरस्कार, विदेश्यात्राएँ चाहिए. आप बोहेमियन तक तो हो नहीं पाए, क्रांतिकारी होना तो दूर की बात है. आप आधुनिक भी नहीं हो पाए हैं जैसे यूरोप में होते हैं. सर्वेश्वर दयाल सक्सेना मजाक करता था कि यदि आपने सच-सच संघर्ष लिख दिया तो आपका बायोडाटा ‘डल’ हो गया. शैलेश मटियानी पश्चिम में होते तो बर्तन मांजने और बकरा काटने के लिए ही पूजे जाते. जब हिंदी लेखकों ने कोई नई खोज वास्तव में की ही नहीं तो गर्व काहे का.
मैं यह नहीं कहता कि पश्चिम में लेखक बड़बोले नहीं होते. पर वे वैसा सचमुच का जीवन जीते हैं. एक तो उन्होंने कुछ नया किया होता है, दूसरे जनता को अधिकार होता है कि वह उसका मजाक उडाये.
प्रश्न- तो क्या यह मान लिया जाए कि हिंदी साहित्य में कोई मौलिक काम नहीं हुआ. नई कहानी, नई कविता, प्रयोगवाद आदि.
जोशीजी- (बीच में रोककर)- बस! बस! बस! क्या बात करते हो? जिसे ‘नई कहानी आंदोलन’ कहा जाता है, उसके तीन प्रमुख नाम, जिनमें से एक गुज़र गए(मोहन राकेश), दो अभी हैं- राजेन्द्र यादव और कमलेश्वर(तब वे जिंदा थे). तीनों मेरे मित्र. खुद को स्थापित करने के लिए आंदोलन चलाया, एक दूसरे से श्रेय छीनने के लिए लड़ते रहे. क्या कभी इस आंदोलन का कोई घोषणापत्र छपा? नहीं. नई कविता की बात लो. कैसी नई कविता? क्या इससे जुड़े कवियों ने कभी लिखकर बताया कि उनकी कविता पहले से क्यों और कैसे भिन्न है? जैसे फ़्रांस में कविता में प्रतीकवाद आंदोलन चला तो अब हिंदी में भी प्रतीकवाद. हिंदी लेखकों की सारी प्रयोगधर्मिता पश्चिम से उधार ली गई है.
प्रश्न- हिंदी में आधुनिकता, उत्तर आधुनिकता, जादुई यथार्थवाद का कोई असर दिखता है?
जोशीजी- जब हिंदी में सही मायने में आधुनिकता और यथार्थवाद ही नहीं आया तो उत्तर-आधुनिकता और जादुई यथार्थवाद कैसे आ सकता है. जैसा कि मैंने पहले कहा, हमारे यहाँ आधुनिकता पश्चिम से आयात की हुई है. आते ही हमारी प्रतिक्रिया दो स्टारों पर हुई. पहली यह कि ‘आधुनिक होने दो हमें क्या करना, हम तो पहले से ही महान हैं. क्या कभी यह आंदोलन होता है कि ‘हम भ्रष्ट हैं’ हमें आधुनिक हो जान चाहिए. दूसरी प्रतिक्रिया यह कि हम यथार्थ से घबड़ाते रहे पर लोक-आख्यान शैली से भी परहेज़ करते रहे. हमने बीच का रास्ता चुना- आदर्शोन्मुख यथार्थवाद. यानी न आदर्शवादी न यथार्थवादी. हमारे यहाँ संस्कृत का घोंटा लगाये पंडित और मार्क्स का घोंटा लगाए तथाकथित क्रांतिकारी दोनों को स्वीकृति प्राप्त है. यदि कोई लेखक सेक्स की, वेश्याओं की, हिजडों की, समलैंगिकों की बात लिख दे तो उसे दोनों खेमा अस्वीकृत कर देगा. स्वयं मार्क्स की टिप्पणी है कि ‘आदर्श यथास्थितिवादी होता है जसी पर लीपापोती करने से अच्छा है तोड़फोड़ करना.
प्रश्न- आपके लेखन पर अश्लीलता का आरोप लगाया जाता रहा है. खासतौर पर ‘हमजाद’ उपन्यास पर. हालांकि इसे उदयप्रकाश हिंदी का पहला ऐसा महत्वपूर्ण उपन्यास मानते हैं जिसमें पॉपुलर कल्चर की आलोचना की गई है, जो आज हमारे चारों ओर अराजक रूप में पैठ जमा चुका है.
जोशीजी- हमजाद को लिखते समय मेरे दिमाग में आदमी के अस्तित्व को लेकर कई बातें थीं. मैं उसके अँधेरे पक्षों की ओर गया. आदमी के अस्तित्व में ही जो घटियापन, दुष्टता या एविल है, दूसरे रचनाकारों-कलाकारों के भीतर भी एविल है और तीसरे खुद लेखक यानी मैं भी उसका एक पात्र है, जो कहानी कहता है- उसके भीतर भी एविल है, शैतानियत है. हमजाद पर विजयमोहन सिंह ने लिखा- ‘मनोहर श्याम जोशी उन अमेरिकी लेखकों की तरह हैं जो ‘पोर्न’ लिखकर नाम और पैसा कमाते हैं. मुद्राराक्षस कि सुनिए- ‘भांग की पकौड़ी’ और ‘हमजाद’ में अंतर नहीं. बटरोही ने ‘हरिया हरक्युलीज़ की हैरानी’ उपन्यास को धारावाहिक प्रकाशित करने वाली पत्रिका ‘इण्डिया टुडे’ के संपादक को लिखा- इसे पढकर मुझे उलटी हो गई, बंद कीजिये. मैंने एक पारिवारिक महिला मित्र को उपहार दिया तो उन्होंने पढ़ने के बाद फोन किया- बकवास है.
मैं विद्यानिवास मिश्र जी का बड़ा आदर करता था. उनको हमजाद पढ़ने के लिए दिया. पुस्तक पर लिखकर- ‘बहुत संकोच और भय के साथ.’ उन्होंने पढ़ने के बाद बहुत गंभीरतापूर्वक कहा- ‘तुम्हें यह नहीं लिखना चाहिए था.’ मैंने पूछा- ‘क्या उपन्यास अश्लील है?’ उन्होंने कहा- ‘नहीं, पर यह हिंदी भाषी समाज की मानसिकता से मेल नहीं खाता. यदि यह मराठी, बंगला या मलयालम में लिखा गया होता तो ठीक था. मैंने मन ही मन कहा कि यह क्या बात हुई. पर आज मुझे लगता है कि उनकी बात में दम है. हिंदी वाले आज भी चुटकुले, लतीफे, आत्मप्रवंचना ही पसंद करते हैं. कटु बात को स्वीकार नहीं कर सकते. मैं मानता हूँ कि मैंने कुछ भी अश्लील नहीं लिखा. यदि आपका आशय है कि इशारे से भी सेक्स की बात करना अश्लील है, वर्जित है तो मैं इसे नहीं मानता. एक ज़माने में द्वारिका प्रसाद जी के दो उपन्यास इसी कारण चर्चित हो गए थे- ‘मम्मी बिगड़ेगी’ और ‘घेरे के बाहर’. आप बताइए कि ‘चित्तकोबरा’ में ऐसा क्या था कि उसकी लेखिका मृदुला गर्ग को लोग जेल भिजवाने पर तुल गए थे. हम हिंदी वाले क्या कोई दुनिया से न्यारे हैं. मुझे इन आरोपों से ज़रा सी भी परेशानी नहीं. मैं हिंदी में कुछ भी लिख दूँगा तो मुझे कुछ खास मिलना नहीं है- न बड़ा पाठक वर्ग न पैसा. मुझे हिंदी की सीमा का पता है.
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जोशी जी के विचारों को जानना बेहद अच्छा लगा एक एक शब्द में सच्चाई हो जैसे.
बहुत शुक्रिया इस साक्षात्कार को यहाँ पढवाने का.
इस साक्षात्कार को पढ़वाने के लिए शुक्रिया !
इस साक्षात्कार को पढ़वाने के लिए कोटि-कोटि धन्यवाद…
Bahut badhiya.
हिंदी समाज आत्म-श्रेष्ठता और तिकड़मबाजी में डूबा रहता है और लगभग यही स्थिति उसके लेखकों और वुद्धिजीवियों की भी है….ऐसे में इनलोगों से क्या अपेक्षा कर सकते हैं….
बहुत बेबाक बात चीत…जोशी जी का यही बेबाकपन तो उन्हें अनूठापन प्रदान करता है…उनकी कही बात आज और अधिक प्रासंगिक हो गई है.
बहुत अच्छा साक्षात्कार! शुक्रिया इसे पढ़वाने का। मनोहरश्याम जोशी को विनम्र श्रद्धांजलि।
रचनाओं के मापदंड,स्थापित लेखकों के नज़रिए का मुद्दा होते है जैसे प्रोफ़ेसर नामवर सिंह मुक्तिबोध की कहानी ’’क्लोड ईथरली ‘’को हिंदी की एक ऐसी कहानी मानते है,कि जैसी दूसरे किसी आदमी ने न लिखी और न कोई लिखने की क्षमता रखता है’’!वहीं जोशीजी का मत है कि”” हिंदी में ऐसी कौन सी कहानी है जिससे आप हिल जाएँ ‘’!जिसकी वजह प्रायः वे ‘’आदर्शोन्मुख यथार्थवाद’’कहते हैं !एकदम सही….!’’सामंतवादी मनोवृत्ति’’और ‘’क्रांतिकारी विचारधारा ’’के विरोधाभासी आचरण को ओढ़े ये कैसे संभव है?मारकेज़ ने के अनुसार’’साहित्य में झूठ जीवन से भी ज्यादा गंभीर माना जाता है !’’ गौरतलब है ,कि जोशी जी कि रचनाएँ अपनी स्पष्टवादिता और कटाक्ष के लिए जानी जाती रही हैं !इसी से आगे के क्रम में कहीं २ उनकी रचनाओं को अश्लीलता का आरोप भी सहना पड़ा !दरअसल हिंदी लेखन में एक निश्चित सामाजिक घेरे के बाहर लेखकों ने जब भी कुछ कहने का दु -स्साहस किया ,उन्हें किसिम २ के आरोपण से दो चार होना पड़ा !महिला लेखिकाओं की साथ तो ये आरोप/विरोध ज्यादा ही सुगमऔर क्रूरता पूर्ण रहे हैं ,उन पर चारित्रिक आरोपों को लगाकर! चितकोबरा(उपन्यास),मित्रों मरजानी,लिहाफ,,एक कहनी यह भी ,इस्मित चुगताई कि अन्य कहानियां ,मैत्रेयी पुष्पा कि कुछ कहानियां और,कुछ स्त्री विमर्श’’मात्र देह नहीं औरत(मृदुला सिन्हा)आम औरत ज़िंदा सवाल (सुधा अरोड़ा) स्त्री विमर्श संबंधी आलेख!आदि !अंत में….’’सभी पुरूस्कार विजेता किसी न किसी विवाद से घिरे रहे हैं,केवल इस आधार पर किसी साहित्यकार की लेखकीय उप्लाब्धितों को नकारा नहीं जा सकता ‘’(तुर्की के नोवेल पुरूस्कार विजेता ओरहन पामुक)……जोशी जी कि पुण्यतिथि पर सारगर्भित साक्षात्कार पढवाने के लिए धन्यवाद ….
आभारी हूँ आपका कि इस साक्षात्कार से गुजरना हुआ!
हिन्दी बौद्धिक वर्ग की स्थिति पर सही ’कमेंट्री’ है। जे एन यू में एक बार मिलना हुआ था जोशी जी से। आर्ट्स एस्थेटिक सेंटर में। आये थे ”प्रेम आध्यात्मिकता…” जैसे एक विषय पर बोलने। छद्म-पसंद कोई आना ही न चाहता। पर महत्वपूर्ण वह था जो वह ”बोले” थे। धर्माध्यात्म के लोचे पर कम में ही काफ़ी समझा गये थे।
वे बौद्धिक कर्मकाण्ड से अलग थे। कर्मकाण्ड वह जो जीने , दिखने और लिखने में भेदसत्ता को बौद्धिक साधन से बनाये रखना चाहे।
पुनः आभार !!
रचनाओं के मापदंड,स्थापित लेखकों के नज़रिए का मुद्दा होते है जैसे प्रोफ़ेसर नामवर सिंह मुक्तिबोध की कहानी ’’क्लोड ईथरली ‘’को हिंदी की एक ऐसी कहानी मानते है,कि जैसी दूसरे किसी आदमी ने न लिखी और न कोई लिखने की क्षमता रखता है’’!वहीं जोशीजी का मत है कि”” हिंदी में ऐसी कौन सी कहानी है जिससे आप हिल जाएँ ‘’!जिसकी वजह प्रायः वे ‘’आदर्शोन्मुख यथार्थवाद’’कहते हैं !एकदम सही….!’’सामंतवादी मनोवृत्ति’’और ‘’क्रांतिकारी विचारधारा ’’के विरोधाभासी आचरण को ओढ़े ये कैसे संभव है?मारकेज़ ने के अनुसार’’साहित्य में झूठ जीवन से भी ज्यादा गंभीर माना जाता है !’’ गौरतलब है ,कि जोशी जी कि रचनाएँ अपनी स्पष्टवादिता और कटाक्ष के लिए जानी जाती रही हैं !इसी से आगे के क्रम में कहीं २ उनकी रचनाओं को अश्लीलता का आरोप भी सहना पड़ा !दरअसल हिंदी लेखन में एक निश्चित सामाजिक घेरे के बाहर लेखकों ने जब भी कुछ कहने का दु -स्साहस किया ,उन्हें किसिम २ के आरोपण से दो चार होना पड़ा !महिला लेखिकाओं की साथ तो ये आरोप/विरोध ज्यादा ही सुगमऔर क्रूरता पूर्ण रहे हैं ,उन पर चारित्रिक आरोपों को लगाकर! चितकोबरा(उपन्यास),मित्रों मरजानी,लिहाफ,,एक कहनी यह भी ,इस्मित चुगताई कि अन्य कहानियां ,मैत्रेयी पुष्पा कि कुछ कहानियां और,कुछ स्त्री विमर्श’’मात्र देह नहीं औरत(मृदुला सिन्हा)आम औरत ज़िंदा सवाल (सुधा अरोड़ा) स्त्री विमर्श संबंधी आलेख!आदि !अंत में….’’सभी पुरूस्कार विजेता किसी न किसी विवाद से घिरे रहे हैं,केवल इस आधार पर किसी साहित्यकार की लेखकीय उप्लाब्धितों को नकारा नहीं जा सकता ‘’(तुर्की के नोवेल पुरूस्कार विजेता ओरहन पामुक)
तुम्हें इस बात की बधाई देना चाहता हूं कि तुमने जोशी जी को सही वक़्त पर याद किया/कराया. वे रेणु, निर्मल वर्मा, राजकमल चौधरी जैसे शैलीकार थे, ऊपर से नौन कन्फ़ौर्मिस्ट, इसके अलावा उनके क़लम में नश्तर की-सी धार थी. इन सारी वजहों से वे विजयमोहन सिंह, मुद्रा और बटरोही जैसे लीक पर चलने वालों को पसन्द नहीं आते थे. अपने इन्टर्व्यू में भी उन्होंने बेबाकी से अपनी हिन्दी के पाखण्ड की चर्चा की है. इस सिलसिले को जारी रखो.
जय जोशी जी. दिल ज़मीन पर और पैर आसमान में की टेक दुरुस्त है. आदर्शवादी यथार्थवादी साहित्य की कमोबेश असलीयत यही है.
जोशी जी ने साहित्य के बहुत से गंभीर मुद्दों यथा पुरस्कारों की विश्वसनीयता और लेखक के लेखन पर बहुत ही यथार्थ और सार्थक विचारोत्तेजक टिप्पणियां की है जो साहित्य समाज को एक ईमानदार और खुली बहस के लिए आमंत्रित करती है, साझा करने के लिए आभार!
JANAKI PUL par JOSHI JI : Puny tithi par subah-subah JANAKIPUL ne MANOHAR SHYAM JOSHI ji ka antim sakshatkar uplabdh karakar bahut upakar kiya! Abhaaaaar! Joshi ji k kathanon me kai hisse halanki bahas ki mang karate hain. Yahan is ansh (यदि आपका आशय है कि इशारे से भी सेक्स की बात करना अश्लील है, वर्जित है तो मैं इसे नहीं मानता. एक ज़माने में द्वारिका प्रसाद जी के दो उपन्यास इसी कारण चर्चित हो गए थे- ‘मम्मी बिगड़ेगी’ और ‘घेरे के बाहर’. आप बताइए कि ‘चित्त्कोबरा’ में ऐसा क्या था कि उसकी लेखिका मृदुला गर्ग को लोग जेल भिजवाने पर तुल गए थे. हम हिंदी वाले क्या कोई दुनिया से न्यारे हैं. मुझे इन आरोपों से ज़रा सी भी परेशानी नहीं. मैं हिंदी में कुछ भी लिख दूँगा तो मुझे कुछ खास मिलना नहीं है- न बड़ा पाठक वर्ग न पैसा. मुझे हिंदी की सीमा का पता है. ) me unhone jis GHERE K BAHAR upnyas ka jikr kiya hai, usake lekhak DWARIKA PRASAD k bare me mujhe HINDI SAHITETIHAKASKAR DR. RAM KHELAVAN PANDEY k kathan yaad aa rahe hain jo unhonne ranchi me lekhak (dwarika baboo) k hi samman me RANCHI EXPRESS ( JHARKHAND ka Hindi dainik patr ) k parisar me aayojit samaroh me bahut bebaki se kahe the! Prasang hai ki vishay-prastavana me Dr. Dineshvar prasad ne adhyakshata kar rahe Dr. Pandey ko lakshy kar vinamratapurvak hi kintu yah thos tippani ki unhonne ( Dr. Pandey ) isi shahar ( yani ranchi ) me baithkar HINDI SAHITY KA NAYA ITIHAS likha, kintu any itihaskron ki tarah hi Dwarika parasad ki upeksha hi kar di… Itihas me namollekh tak nahin kiya! Dr. Pandey jab khade hue to saaf shabdon me bole : "…Dineshvar varshon se yah itihas uchcha kakshaon me padha raha hai, kintu mujhe aaj yah janakar ashchary hua ki usane abhi tak isaki bhoomika bhi thik se nahin padhi, jisame saf likha gaya hai ki jin lekhakon ko isame unaka naam nahin dikhe unhen yah bhram nahin palana chahiye ki yah ( naam) choot gaya hoga, balki unhen yah jan lena chahiye ki unaka naam choota nahin balki chhod diya gaya hai! " Bolate hue Dr.Pandey ne Dwarika baaboo k charchit upanyason k sath hi adhikansh pramukh rachanaon ki charcha-vyakhya karate hue sabako ek-ekkar yah kahate hue kharij kiya ki iname se kisi ka lakshy hi pata nahin chalata ki ye rachi kis sakaratamak uddeshy se gayee hain!" Unaka vah kathor kathan aaj bhi lagabhag usi dridh svar me mere kanon me goonj raha hai : "…dwarika ka ullekh avashy jaye, main yahi hahata tha…us par maine bahut samay bhi barbad kiya hai, lekin sab janane-padhane k baad main unaka akhir kaise zikr kar sakata tha… kuonki main HINDI SAHITY KA NAYA ITIHAS likh raha tha, KUDE-KARKAT KA ITIHAS nahin!" …Labboluab yahi ki drishti yadi vyapak aur lakshy saf-suthara ho to udagr varnanon ko kahan khariz kar pata hai koi! Kam se kam KALIDAS ko to is mamale me ek akaty udaharan k roop me yahan dekha hi ja sakata hai! Baharhal, JOSHI ji ko SHRADHANJALI…..
इस साक्षात्कार को पढवाने के लिए जानकी पुल को बहुत-बहुत शुक्रिया! आख़री सवाल का जवाब पढ़ कर मन बेचैन हो गया. अपने मन के कुछ विचार पुख्ता हुए.
ज़बरदस्त साक्षात्कार.. बहुत अहम बातें की है जोशी जी ने!
इस बातचीत से-
हमजाद पर विजयमोहन सिंह ने लिखा- ‘मनोहर श्याम जोशी उन अमेरिकी लेखकों की तरह हैं जो ‘पोर्न’ लिखकर नाम और पैसा कमाते हैं. मुद्राराक्षस कि सुनिए- ‘भांग की पकौड़ी’ और ‘हमजाद’ में अंतर नहीं. बटरोही ने ‘हरिया हरक्युलीज़ की हैरानी’ उपन्यास को धारावाहिक प्रकाशित करने वाली पत्रिका ‘इण्डिया टुडे’ के संपादक को लिखा- इसे पढकर मुझे उलटी हो गई, बंद कीजिये. मैंने एक पारिवारिक महिला मित्र को उपहार दिया तो उन्होंने पढ़ने के बाद फोन किया- बकवास है.
छोटा पर रोचक साक्षात्कार. बधाई प्रभात भाई!
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